Yuck, yuck
"A strong case could be made that, whenever nuclear weapons appeared or where their presence was even strongly suspected, major interstate warfare on any scale is in the process of slowly abolishing itself. What is more, any state of any importance is now by definition capable of producing nuclear weapons. Hence, such warfare can be waged only either between or against third- and fourth-rate countries." Martin Van Creveld - The Rise and Decline of the State, Pg 344
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and hence clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H. L. Mencken
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Hillary Clinton came up empty when she tried to get Brazil on board for sanctions against Iran.
"We see an Iran that runs to Brazil, an Iran that runs to Turkey, an Iran that runs to China telling different things to different people to avoid international sanctions.” Hillary Clinton in Brazil
The international community should not corner Iran on the issue of its nuclear programme, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Wednesday, before a meeting with US Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. "It is not prudent to put Iran with its back up against the wall," Lula said.
Why is Brazil so reluctant to "partner" with the "international community" in sanctioning Iran?
The real core of the Iran question, the core that draws sympathy from such disparate countries as Brazil, Turkey and China, is the practical question of sovereignty in the face of America's enormous military power. And in the specific case of Iran: sovereignty in the face of America's enormous military power plus Israel's enormous military power.
It is interesting to notice that no country possessing an atomic weapon has ever been invaded. There has never been a war between two countries with atomic arms, not even between India and Pakistan, people who truly hate each other. Yet during all these years, both the USA and Israel have been almost constantly at war, invading and attacking other countries. The lesson couldn't be clearer.
Sticking with the trio named by Hillary (typical Hillary, the use of the word "run"). China already has the atomic bomb: it obtained it at the cost of millions of Chinese starving to death in the 1950s to pay the Russians for the technology. Nobody better than the Chinese to understand the need for the bomb when facing American power.
The Turks are awakening to their own regional power and the risk that power could bring them without a nuclear umbrella.
As to Brazil a future super power: both their capacity and expressed intention to obtain the bomb at some future date are well known.
All three countries understand the cost of sovereignty and the need to insure it.
So the bottom line really is that if Iran gets the atomic bomb, neither the USA or Israel will be able to attack it, in fact, they will have to very careful how they use any military force in the Middle East from that date on.
The United States and Israel want to be able to make war on Iran at will. If Iran has even only one or two atomic bombs this will no longer be possible. This is not about defending against Iran, it's about permitting Iran to be able to defend itself.
Can the the USA and Israel maintain their position in the Middle East without recourse to armed intimidation, that is the real question?
The great irony of the atomic bomb is that it means the end of military conflict, it is the ultimate "peacemaker" and those that live and fatten by one sided war all fear its spread.
The subject of nuclear proliferation is filled with ghastly ironies. Let me try a huge boutade on y'all for size.
Simple. The United States is desperately in need of refurbishing its infrastructure, its public education system, its industrial base and a long list to follow. At the same time it spends an enormous amount of money for its elephantine military establishment.
America is now massively, perhaps terminally, in debt... painful economies must be made. Immediately voices are raised advocating a curtailment of "entitlements" up to and including old age pensions for the greedy boomers... but no one seems to push for a drastic cut in military spending.
Since we have seen that war between atomic powers is useless, (here I take as my text the writings of Martin Van Creveld), then proliferation would mean that America's aircraft carrier groups, stealth bombers, assorted drones and its world spanning network of bases (here we read Chalmers Johnson) would be rendered useless.
The United States would be able to cut its military spending by two thirds and still be the most powerful military force in the world.
There might even be a bit left over to heal the sick and instruct the ignorant.
Of course all of this would only make sense if we were talking about the real welfare of the American people as a whole and not just a power elite. And it would only make sense if we were talking about "defense".
Obviously if the real name of the game is "domination" and "hegemony" none of what I have said here makes any sense at all. DS
The real core of the Iran question, the core that draws sympathy from such disparate countries as Brazil, Turkey and China, is the practical question of sovereignty in the face of America's enormous military power. And in the specific case of Iran: sovereignty in the face of America's enormous military power plus Israel's enormous military power.
It is interesting to notice that no country possessing an atomic weapon has ever been invaded. There has never been a war between two countries with atomic arms, not even between India and Pakistan, people who truly hate each other. Yet during all these years, both the USA and Israel have been almost constantly at war, invading and attacking other countries. The lesson couldn't be clearer.
Sticking with the trio named by Hillary (typical Hillary, the use of the word "run"). China already has the atomic bomb: it obtained it at the cost of millions of Chinese starving to death in the 1950s to pay the Russians for the technology. Nobody better than the Chinese to understand the need for the bomb when facing American power.
The Turks are awakening to their own regional power and the risk that power could bring them without a nuclear umbrella.
As to Brazil a future super power: both their capacity and expressed intention to obtain the bomb at some future date are well known.
All three countries understand the cost of sovereignty and the need to insure it.
So the bottom line really is that if Iran gets the atomic bomb, neither the USA or Israel will be able to attack it, in fact, they will have to very careful how they use any military force in the Middle East from that date on.
The United States and Israel want to be able to make war on Iran at will. If Iran has even only one or two atomic bombs this will no longer be possible. This is not about defending against Iran, it's about permitting Iran to be able to defend itself.
Can the the USA and Israel maintain their position in the Middle East without recourse to armed intimidation, that is the real question?
The great irony of the atomic bomb is that it means the end of military conflict, it is the ultimate "peacemaker" and those that live and fatten by one sided war all fear its spread.
The subject of nuclear proliferation is filled with ghastly ironies. Let me try a huge boutade on y'all for size.
"This house maintains that the prime beneficiary of wide and general nuclear proliferation would be the American people themselves".How do I justify that startling, perhaps Swiftian, proposition?
Simple. The United States is desperately in need of refurbishing its infrastructure, its public education system, its industrial base and a long list to follow. At the same time it spends an enormous amount of money for its elephantine military establishment.
America is now massively, perhaps terminally, in debt... painful economies must be made. Immediately voices are raised advocating a curtailment of "entitlements" up to and including old age pensions for the greedy boomers... but no one seems to push for a drastic cut in military spending.
Since we have seen that war between atomic powers is useless, (here I take as my text the writings of Martin Van Creveld), then proliferation would mean that America's aircraft carrier groups, stealth bombers, assorted drones and its world spanning network of bases (here we read Chalmers Johnson) would be rendered useless.
The United States would be able to cut its military spending by two thirds and still be the most powerful military force in the world.
There might even be a bit left over to heal the sick and instruct the ignorant.
Of course all of this would only make sense if we were talking about the real welfare of the American people as a whole and not just a power elite. And it would only make sense if we were talking about "defense".
Obviously if the real name of the game is "domination" and "hegemony" none of what I have said here makes any sense at all. DS
1 comment:
I find your reasoning helpful to mine. Mine tells me that nuclear weapons may also be borrowed (or loaned if you will) by one country to another. It is a matter of implimenting a foreigh policy that supports heteroginy against hegemony. One need not loan or borrow a whole arsenal, but one or two WMDs will do. A low number warns off the would be attacker by mental telepathizing that more loans may follow, but guarantees the one who makes the loan that the weapons will be returned when asked. Or perhaps they will not be returned, because the final decision that the loaner makes about his loan is that he-she-it stands for a heteroginous world.
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